From the T-square to the Grand Cross! Whew! 31 original replies

About Me Forums Scorpio! From the T-square to the Grand Cross! Whew! 31 original replies

This topic contains 30 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Michelle Young 4 years, 8 months ago.

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    Michelle Young

    Expecto Patronum ! Expecto PatronumJan 8, 2014
    Thanks for explaining the situation in simple language. I don’t think it touches my chart that badly, but it may be instilling a low-mood in me. 

    Cold it is, for sure. Check this out!


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 8, 2014
    Expecto, thank you. Despite the heat in my apartment that makes me complain (India is cooler!) and forces me to open the window most of the winter, the cold here was seeping in, my windows were iced, and I caught a miserable head cold last night. I went through 3/4 of a box of tissues yesterday, my nose is raw, and I was dealing with that in the midst of my desktop deciding to give me grief. I spent the entire day and most of the night on the phone with a friend in California who is sending for it to replace the motherboard or processor for me. 

    As a result, my hope to post about India and Pakistan with the Cardinal Grand Cross had to be pushed to today. In the meantime, while I’m on the laptop and could write, I didn’t eat lunch yesterday–I wasn’t feeling up to it–and I made a quick, uneventful dinner last night just to get something into my system (made whole wheat penne rigate tossed with kale, collard greens, garlic, baby bella mushrooms and a little olive oil. I think it tasted good, but I couldn’t really taste. I just went through the motions. Fell asleep immediately after dinner and just woke up. I’m going to bed now instead of doing more on the analysis. Hopefully I’ll feel better today so I can write as I wanted to. Yesterday was such a waste, I even tried to call Sienna–the munchkin in my family whose photo is somewhere in my shots–to wish her a happy seventh birthday yesterday (hard to believe!), and I inadvertently dialed a wrong number. I apparently sound even more like a little girl with a head cold. The lady who answered the phone thought I was asking for Santa!

    Till I wake up later…I’m going to bed and hopefully this tender nose of mine will allow me to breathe without running all night…


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 11, 2014
    At last I’m back with India’s Lunar Return… Sorry for the delay.

    India – January 16, 2014 Lunar Return

    The upcoming Full Moon (January 16) falls just outside of a partile opposition at 1°02′ but certainly close enough to make an impact when we look at the chart even outside the natal chart for India. The Sun falls in the 9th house, tightly conjunct the Midheaven, while the Moon falls in the 3rd in an even closer conjunction to the IC (1°03′). But this is the Lunar Return chart, and the 12th house is rising. Just at the onset, I’m reminded–because it’s India’s Lunar Return that I’m considering–of the 12th house natural rulership: This is Pisces’ home, and Neptune rules. Neptune, still in Pisces, is in the 11th house but intercepted (just as the LR sign of Taurus is in the natal 12th house). From this perspective alone, it would seem that this kind of energy would be making a dramatic statement about the public face (MC) India is presenting as a new world power and the face that she is presenting to her people at home (IC). Of course at the very least, the energy points to a crisis. After all, the fat lady hasn’t sung in this matter yet, has she?

    The Cardinal Grand Cross comes to life in this chart despite the squaring and opposing planets being in the 3rd , 6th, 9th, and 12th cadent houses. Pluto falls in the 9th house of international affairs (along with Venus and the Sun in opposition to 3rd house Jupiter and the Moon–all of which I’m telling you in parentheses so you don’t get confused) in square to natal Neptune (natal Neptune sits in 8-minute partile opposition to LR Uranus) and LR Mars in the 6th in opposition to Uranus. The Jupiter-Pluto opposition actually creates the bridge to continuing Grand Cross that might not otherwise be there since Mars is–depending on the astrologer looking at the chart–potentially on the wide side of its opposition to Uranus, just as Venus would be wide to Uranus if Venus weren’t in retrograde motion. Venus moves more quickly than Mars, so the lingering effects of this duo will continue.

    Normally, this Grand Cross might not include the Full Moon. But the Full Moon gets another bridge from Venus to put that into the mix as well since Venus is within orb of both the Sun and the Moon. To make matters worse, Mars makes a partile square to Venus within 23 minutes.  Talk about a complex situation: we might even say this is the celestial soap opera at its most dramatic!

    So how does all of this drama come to pass? Well, for starters, I think we’re looking at the continuing situation between the United States and India. Pluto is now making a likely partile orb opposition to the US Sun if the 4th of July is actually the birth of the US (for those of you who don’t know, when the US was born–date and time–has been a bone of contention among astrologers since the birth of the nation first took place). The posturing between both nations is evident; but if ever I wished I could see the true US natal chart to look at the LR for the US as well, this would be one of those times. I’m bothered by that placement of Uranus in the 12th house. Not that none of us ever experience Uranus in the 12th. Of course we do. But the Grand Cross pulls India’s natal Neptune into the 6th house of this return in opposition to that 12th house Uranus, and it makes me wonder what else is about to come out in this case. It *seems* like something pretty significant should happen on the 14th or 15th of January, but then the case really hasn’t left sight of the media for very long since it began, has it? 

    In fairness to the delays I’ve had in looking at the upcoming Lunar Return, I haven’t really paid much attention to the news except for Ariel Sharon’s death announced in my mail this morning and my following up on that with a quick posting elsewhere. I do think, however, that while the conversations may appear to be public (Mercury in the 10th), I think there’s a lot more behind the scenes action than we can begin to imagine just yet. This kind of reminds me of the two men preparing to fight and neither wants to make the first move while they taunt and insult in advance. They take small steps, jerking forward suddenly as if to intimidate the other one. And as tensions rise, one is then stupid enough to throw the first punch. Somehow, I don’t think that will happen despite what’s here.

    If the Lunar Return were showing the Grand Cross in the angular Houses–and remember, it’s just missing despite that Full Moon on the Meridian (MC/IC) since the Full Moon is really a far-fetch to being more actively involved in the Grand Cross–it would be a far more precarious situation than it is. The Grand Cross will still take the energy from the cadent houses. No question there. So I’d say it’s highly unlikely we’ll see these two nations coming to blows just yet.

    I’d be more inclined to say it’s going to sputter and fume along the way but will cool off after a time. It is, after all, a diplomatic situation and not much more than that. On the other hand, the US seems to have been getting embroiled in a number of “diplomatic situations” in the last year or two, and this may be the result of that old saying about familiarity breeding contempt. Of course I can’t be sure: I’m not in Washington nor am I in Delhi, speaking with those who hold the power in their hands.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 11, 2014
    To any degree, I suppose, there is still the matter of politics here. What happens at home will be sure to influence the way such matters are handled. That’s even true in the publishing world where an editor, despite the effort to be unbiased in daily work, may have a bad day as a result of an argument with the Significant Other, a speeding ticket, a traffic jam, whatever. It happens. All this to say that we are all connected to the things we do in our daily lives even when we think we’re making decisions based solely on a particular situation at a moment in time. 

    Meanwhile, the maid seems to have vanished from focus altogether. There is some measure of “edited” reserve present in the situation in the sense that while India seems to be staying public on the matter, it and the United States both seem to have taken a quieter stance on the matter of the maid. She actually has more of my curiosity; but then I often tend to favor the underdog, I’ll admit. Still, I’m reminded of school districts in the United States when they encounter situations that would end up in the news because they tend to prefer to avoid the limelight in preference of burying especially negative news as quickly as possible. (Okay, so that is most likely to be the case for most of us, isn’t it?) One can’t even tell where the energy is actually coming from since the Eastern and Western hemispheres of the chart are equally balanced.  Like it or not, however, with the dominance of planets above the horizon, we’re most likely to get a continuing blow-by-blow summary of events at this time. Maybe the national emotions won’t show so much, but expect that the politicians will be making their points quite loudly. 

    On a sidenote, I suspect the diplomat, Devyani Khobragade, will be forced to take less of a high profile position regardless of anything the politicians–those in the States or in India–might have to say about it. This should turn out to be a matter of soothing ruffled feathers on both sides of the ocean, a quiet handling of the maid and her family (in the US perhaps? It doesn’t appear that she’s returned to India, does it?), and life going on as before because both nations ultimately still need each other in their courts. All this in a Lunar Return? No, probably not, but the third quadrant is dominant in this LR, and that says the relationships will be what ultimately drive the energy of this period of time.

    From street level, it would seem people really won’t be surprised on either side of the ocean; but the matter of law and order, keeping things on a fairly even keel and not getting the average citizen too riled at the thought that the key point here has been to get it out of the headlines where the matter could be handled more discreetly seems to be where this will be most likely to end up.

    It seems to me there’s something satirical to be noted in such a turn of events. It’s not the first time I’ve seen such matters get pushed back under the carpet lest people get too angry. I saw it a few years ago in a situation where India pulled someone out of the USA to avoid prosecution on a charge that amounted to compromised sexual matters, and this wasn’t even of a public figure! By doing so,  the matter was forgotten, save for the family of a young girl, and it never hit the papers in India (or even in the USA for that matter!). I learned because I knew one of the parties involved.

    I do wonder, therefore, how much longer such events will continue to be buried in the two nations. This one seems to have spilled out quite unexpectedly, if that position of Uranus in the 12th has anything to say about it. Injustice, like it or not, happens far more frequently than we would like it to do. It’s about who the most indispensable person is, the worth of the one who is not considered that indispensable (maids, young girls, the lower classes, etc), and it’s about what two lawyers once said to me: “Justice isn’t about who is right or wrong, but about who has the most money and the best lies.”

    That bites, but it’s true.


    Michelle Young

    Sireesha-Orkut.jpg Sireesha InturiJan 14, 2014
    Wow Michelle, that’s a very great analysis


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 14, 2014
    Thank you, Sireesha.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 15, 2014

    Expecto Patronum !:

    Thanks for explaining the situation in simple language. I don’t think it touches my chart that badly, but it may be instilling a low-mood in me. 

    I think, Expecto,it only needs to touch a place in your chart, regardless of how seemingly insignificant it is.

    In your case, it’s hitting your angles. Definitely closer than you might think.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 16, 2014
    And the 9th house issues between the US and India made the news today with the following, and I’ll add here that the US Embassy clearly needs some intercultural training! The comments noted in the article are absolutely deplorable! 

    Indian school ensnared in US diplomatic row

    All India | Gardiner Harris and Benjamin Weiser, The New York Times | Updated: January 16, 2014 15:00 IST

    New Delhi: A handout for new teachers at this city’s exclusive American Embassy School, an academic oasis for children of U.S. diplomats and other expatriates, offers some unusual guidance to female teachers whose husbands will also be teaching at the school.

    “The female spouse should not state that she will be working,” the handout states, instructing spouses to list their occupation on visa applications as “housewife,” adding that “no sexism is intended on our part.”

    That advice, which top Indian officials say is illegal, has ensnared the American school, a cherished institution among foreigners living here, in a growing diplomatic spat between India and the United States that began last month with the arrest in New York of Devyani Khobragade, an Indian consular official, on charges of visa fraud and making false statements in connection with her employment of a domestic worker.

    The arrest and her resulting strip-search shocked the Indian diplomatic corps and generated about as much outraged commentary in the Indian news media as the beheading last year of an Indian soldier on a disputed border with Pakistan.

    Since the arrest, Indian diplomats have peppered U.S. officials here with a blizzard of questions and demands in the hope of uncovering similar violations by U.S. diplomats. The police removed security barriers in front of the U.S. Embassy here and stopped many diplomats’ cars and cited them for minor traffic violations such as having tinted windows. Many of the moves and queries have been quietly shrugged off by U.S. officials.

    But questions about the school have sent a deep shudder through the expatriate community here. The school, which is next to the U.S. Embassy on land owned by the U.S. government, has a swimming pool, tennis courts and vast athletic fields. Its stone classroom buildings and generous libraries could grace an Ivy League campus. Its price tag – around $20,000 a year – rivals that of some of New York City’s top private schools. A small army of uniformed security men patrol its perimeter.

    Paul Chmelik, the school’s top administrator, refused to comment Tuesday about the visa issue with the Indian government. Expecting an article in The New York Times, Chmelik emailed parents Wednesday warning that “there could be a goodly number of members of the media present around the perimeter of the school during the course of the school day today and Thursday and Friday.”

    “So you know,” he continued, “the article will most likely focus on the degree to which the school has complied with various government regulations.”

    Hours earlier, the State Department in Washington released a statement that the deputy secretary of state, William J. Burns, had hosted the Indian ambassador, S. Jaishankar, for a lunch meeting at which they discussed “the variety of issues raised by the Ministry of External Affairs via diplomatic note, including alleged issues with the American Embassy School.”

    “Deputy Secretary Burns conveyed that we take their concerns very seriously and will continue to address them via appropriate diplomatic channels,” the statement said.

    False rumors have swirled through the school in recent days of vast teacher dismissals, and Nancy J. Powell, the U.S. ambassador to India, addressed a special meeting Tuesday afternoon of school faculty and staff members.

    About a third of the school’s nearly 1,500 students are from the United States, another 20 percent are from South Korea and the rest come from dozens of other countries. The students include many children of foreign diplomats, executives and journalists.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 16, 2014
    Syed Akbaruddin, a spokesman for the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, said the visa instructions listed on the teachers’ handout were “clearly a violation of tax law.”

    The handout notes that India has placed restrictions on the number of tax-free visas available to school employees.

    “So, if you are a teaching couple,” the handout says, “we usually have the male spouse apply for the ’employment’ visa and the female spouse be noted as ‘housewife’ on the visa application.”

    One reason the Delhi school is widely admired is that it has a veteran and respected staff of teachers recruited in part by generous pay packages, including tax benefits.

    A senior Indian official estimated that the American Embassy School had at least 16 teachers working illegally, and that smaller U.S. schools in Mumbai and Chennai probably had several more. Schools are not alone in this: Many tax laws in India are at best fitfully enforced and often widely ignored.

    Last February, the country’s finance minister, P. Chidambaram, announced that just 42,800 people reported earning at least $162,000 a year. In a country of 1.2 billion, where some 25,000 luxury automobiles are sold every year, the actual number is almost certainly much higher.

    Khobragade’s arrest has plucked at deep sensitivity over how India is portrayed, and the news media and the public have searched for examples of U.S. diplomats’ misbehaving. This has led to headlines and a dedicated website in recent days listing some of the Facebook posts of Wayne and Alicia Muller May, the U.S. diplomats who were expelled from India over the weekend in retaliation for the U.S. insistence that Khobragade leave the country after she refused to settle the charges against her in exchange for a modest fine.

    “One week in country and I already miss STEAK,” Wayne May, head of embassy security in Delhi, stated in one post among many that caused outrage. Cows are venerated by Indian Hindus, and slaughtering cows is illegal in many places. In another, Alicia May, the embassy’s community liaison officer, responded to an article that claimed nonvegetarians were more prone to violence. “It’s the vegetarians that are doing the raping, not the meat eaters – this place is just so bizarre,” she wrote.

    In a briefing Monday, a spokeswoman for the State Department, Marie Harf, said that these posts “absolutely do not reflect U.S. government policy, nor were they made on any official U.S. government social media account.”

    Neither officials in Washington nor New Delhi have publicly identified the Mays as the expelled diplomats, but their identity has been widely reported.

    On Tuesday, Khobragade was welcomed by nearly 60 people at the Mumbai airport as she arrived home after a weekend in New Delhi. The crowd, fired up by the fierce patriotism her arrest has provoked in India, shouted “Down with America, down with Barack Obama” and other slogans. When Khobragade finally appeared, she was swarmed by TV cameras and supporters.

    “I am thankful to my city, Mumbai, for the love and support,” she said.

    Khobragade’s husband and children are U.S. citizens and remain in New York. She said she was not sure when she would see them again since U.S. officials had promised to press charges against her if she returned.

    Indian officials are negotiating with the United States on the status of at least 14 other maids of diplomats in the United States. Indian diplomats have proposed to the Finance Ministry that the government pay the maids’ salaries, which would make them immune to U.S. wage-and-hour laws. But in an editorial Tuesday, The Hindustan Times argued that the Finance Ministry should reject the request as “there is no argument in favor of the Indian taxpayer paying for household help for its officers.”

    (Gardiner Harris reported from New Delhi, and Benjamin Weiser from New York. Neha Thirani Bagri contributed reporting from Mumbai, India.)
    © 2014, The New York Times News Service


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 16, 2014
    Khobragade’s arrest has plucked at deep sensitivity over how India is portrayed, and the news media and the public have searched for examples of U.S. diplomats’ misbehaving. This has led to headlines and a dedicated website in recent days listing some of the Facebook posts of Wayne and Alicia Muller May, the U.S. diplomats who were expelled from India over the weekend in retaliation for the U.S. insistence that Khobragade leave the country after she refused to settle the charges against her in exchange for a modest fine.

    I have to comment on this and say I’m beyond simply glad that the Mays were expelled from India, and good for India for the expulsions! I would have encouraged India to do so even without the Khobragade situation. I’m horrified that they were even hired for their respective jobs!


    Michelle Young

    Sireesha-Orkut.jpg Sireesha InturiJan 17, 2014
    Whatever may be the situation between india and us, on the khobragade’s case, US embassy personnel should not made such comments on a country they are residing in, whether the land they walk belongs to US or not. It’s more of a moral values issue with those two officials, as far as I am concerned. Respect should be given to any country, despite however bizarre they may seem to us, different countries, different cultures, it’s as simple as that.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 17, 2014
    Absolutely, Sireesha!!!! One would hope, however, that any personnel who are in a foreign land would have been trained to know how to behave (this should be a given) and how to speak with intercultural and multicultural values in mind.


    Michelle Young

    Sireesha-Orkut.jpg Sireesha InturiJan 19, 2014
    I highly doubt for the need of a training in maintaining the simple matters of respect towards other’s cultures. But how ever I do agree, the training would at least keep them reminding the fact that respect is mutual.


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 19, 2014
    I wish that were true, Sireesha. But maintaining simple respect toward others–whether or not their cultures are included here–isn’t as easy as that. You were raised to have respect toward others and their cultures. That’s not the case everywhere–even in India: Consider how I was treated in several instances while I was there: I made jokes with friends about our apparently being in Martian territory (only I was the apparent Martian!) as we traveled and became aware that I was the subject of more than a few stares:

    In Delhi, I–dressed in a kurta as many women who weren’t in sarees were–was waiting for the train at the Metro with a friend. A woman dressed in a black burqa, only her eyes showing, was staring at me. It seemed so out of place, considering that she was the only one in view wearing a burqa. Or how about the man on the train itself, staring at me? Now his stares weren’t unusual since many men were staring at me. But this man in particular was staring so much–never wavering from that fixed gaze on me–when another man got on the train and stood in the aisle in front of him, the starer seemed to develop a chicken neck and suddenly craned his neck around the other man’s leg to continue to stare! (Women, btw, often exchanged warm and genuine smiles with me and sometimes even brief conversations.) But these stares were enough to make one paranoid and wonder if one has suddenly developed a huge wart on the face! 

    Now I can point out not one or two but several instances like this, including teenagers who would look and start laughing at me. Do you have any idea of how horrible this made me feel? Or how unwelcome I felt when, in this land where “the whole world is a family” is a basic tenet, I learned the fee for entering a few of the sites I visited with friends was higher simply because I had the audacity not to be Indian! I questioned whether I shouldn’t wear a kurta because I was somehow offending someone. I questioned whether it was my being an obvious foreigner or if it was my porcelain skin or if I offended simply by my presence! And I wondered whether any of these people staring would ever come to the US and stare at me like that too. 

    In Mumbai, one person I met at a function (in fact, she picked me up to take me to the function) asked me if I might be Anglo-Indian. The thought of my ever being called “Anglo” in itself was amusing to me. I’m not. But being asked this particular question was something of a compliment to me. Yet all people in India are not one hue or one culture.

    Not even in America! The peoples of the world are as many hues (and cultures) as nature itself is. Why should my having such fair skin even have to enter into consideration? Why should anything need to enter consideration???

    I’ve even questioned how I have always accepted others far more easily than I’ve been accepted. Someone once asked me if I felt like a square peg trying to fit in to a round-holed world. The thought described my own thoughts accurately.

    At times, Sireesha, I wanted to cry at how some of these people were staring or reacting. All because I looked different? Should this not also be a matter of respect people would simply get???

    The one bit of hope I have for tomorrow’s world lies in a beautiful series of events I witnessed at a school in Bangalore. I’ll be writing a magazine article about it, and it’s not composed yet; but this school is private and all-inclusive. They give scholarships to children whose families can’t afford the tuition, and the ambiance–a word I rarely use–is simply incredible and awe-inspiring. I saw children of all hues and of all ranges of intelligence, from gifted to emotionally challenged to a Down’s syndrome child. But to see these children interacting, you’d never have known there was any difference. In fact, one of the things that impressed me the most was when the Down’s syndrome child wasn’t set apart and was participating in an activity with the other children. The child did not disrupt the activity, was patient, happy to interact, and parroted what another child of average or above-average intelligence was doing during the activity. There was an air of kindness, genuine compassion and understanding even among the students who were all under the age of 10.

    So now you tell me: why, in a nation where people of so many ages, cultures, religions, traditions, languages, and so on, were adults and teenagers staring at me like I was laughable or something–and how did these beautiful children at that school know what those so many years older than they were still didn’t get?


    Michelle Young

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungApr 9, 2014
    Well, you know the saying about “It ain’t over till the fat lady sings.” More on this story at least from an analytical point of view:

    US and India can’t afford ‘unforced errors’

    Yashwat Raj, Hindustan Times
    April 08, 2014

    United States senator Mark Warner likes his job and doesn’t want to be considered for the position of US ambassador to India, which fell vacant recently after Nancy Powell’s resignation.There is a need for someone with an “exceptional background, profile (and) … clout”, said the Democrat co-chair of the Senate India Caucus, the largest such country-specific group.

    Powell’s resignation has set off a race for advice and suggestions to the administration. US-India Business Council (USIBC) president Ron Somers thought Warner would make a great candidate, but the senator politely reminded everyone he is seeking a second term.

    But there is no shortage of names. Former deputy secretary of defence Ash Carter, who handled the issue of export restrictions for India, is a favourite for some India experts at Washington DC think-tanks.

    The search for the ‘right’ ambassador this time has taken on an urgency rarely associated with the process before, with even New Delhi slipping in a chit or two of its own.

    That’s how USAID administrator Rajiv Shah is believed to have entered the fray. If the US could send Chinese-origin Gary Locke to Beijing, why not Shah to New Delhi?

    The Chinese soured on Locke quite quickly, but that is lost on most people rooting for Shah. His Gujarati origins, however, do make him a tempting choice.

    Picture this: One Gujarati at 7 Race Course Road, another a few kilometres down the road at Roosevelt House, the US ambassador’s residence. And another Gujarati a few time zones away in Washington DC — assistant secretary of state for South and Central Asia Nisha Desai Biswal.

    There’s nothing wrong with this picture, except that it seems too pretty, with the Locke effect hovering overhead — an ‘unforced error’ India and the US can’t afford.

    Senate India Caucus’ Republican co-chair John Cornyn has said the two countries must aim low, look for short-term goals to get the relationship out of this present mess. For no fault of hers possibly, Powell didn’t have a smooth tenure. Can India and the US afford Powell/Locke 2.0?

    Frank Wisner, a former US ambassador to India, believes Narendra Modi’s election will present the relationship a unique set of challenges.

    Those who will run the country with Modi, he said, “are people we (in the US) don’t know”, not dealt with them before— the Vajpayee group was almost a generation ago. The generational change just adds to a growing list of challenges before the two countries that are struggling to save a marriage just a day after the honeymoon has ended.

    Barack Obama’s Harvard classmate and tough-talking trade representative Mike Froman may announce sanctions any day now to force India’s acquiescence to the US trade regime. And the Devyani Khobragade row continues, often with little prods from Indian-born US attorney Preet Bharara.

    Among the most worrying challenges, however, is the apparent drop in enthusiasm for the relationship in the White House.

    Powell’s selection — despite her long years of experience in the region — was seen as a consequence of this diminishing interest.

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