Scorpio gets the master teacher, Saturn! (Oct 1, 2012)

About Me Forums Scorpio! Scorpio gets the master teacher, Saturn! (Oct 1, 2012)

This topic contains 25 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Expecto Patronum 3 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #1516

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 1, 2012

    Scorpio gets the master teacher, Saturn!

    What a way to start this thread! I had a great start and then managed to push something on my bookmark bar and wiped the whole thing out in a flash! sigh…

    Okay, here we go again. lol Saturn has a rep to maintain, you know? He’s often see as the hard-core teacher who shows a merciless attitude if you’re down on your luck, had too much of a good time at that party, you’re sick or deeply depressed. It’s not that we’re not supposed to have pity parties. Believe me, that’s the least of his concerns. It’s what you’ll do next, what you need to do next that may count here.

    Scorpio, you have a great sense of style in the sense of focus and purpose in your life. In great amounts, I suppose you can thank Saturn just as much as you can Pluto for that. Pluto gives you the drive and initiative and persistence, the passion to accomplish. Saturn gives you the understandings that you need to do certain things simply because you need to do them, and you need to learn so you don’t repeat the dumb mistakes you already knew you shouldn’t have made.

    Mind you, all of this, I realize, sounds like the same old stuff you’ve heard before. It’s not. It’s brand new because this is the first time you’ve heard this–now–at this time. Even if you’ve heard it before, you’ll get new meaning from what you’re hearing now, and you’ll learn and grow in the process as a result.

    The biggest lesson you’ll learn here is yes, you do have to do the work before you party. Get the work done first. It hurts, I know. Everyone else is out there having a great time, while you’re slaving away, right? Reminds me of a familiar picture I must have seen somewhere in a book once: a small boy of maybe 9 or 10, elbow on the window sill in front of him, hand on his chin as he looks longingly at his friends outside with the baseball bats and gloves. Or maybe he’s stepped away from the music stand, violin still in hand, looking at his friends outside with the same baseball bats and gloves. For all I know, I could have seen the picture in an ad sometime, but that scene is so vivid in my mind. Now, you’re that boy with the violin, or the hand on the chin, elbow on the window.

    If you’re looking at going to school over the next three years (more or less)–it’s actually done in December 2014, but we’ll backtrack for one last lesson in 2015 before we’re done with Saturn in Scorpio–now is a good time, even a great time to consider doing so. Work quickly to achieve that goal if you plan to because this isn’t a whole lot of time in which you can accomplish your goals.

    On the other hand, the Sun in Scorpio–and the Moon for that matter too, like all Suns and Moons–has an enormous reach because it’s a luminary. The orbs of magnetic attraction can be as much, depending on the other aspects in the chart, as 10°, 12° and even more on some occasions if the positioning is just right. So if you have the Sun at 15° of Scorpio, you can expect to start feeling Saturn as early as when it hits at least 5° of Scorpio and maybe even before that–and it will linger till at least 20° or beyond. This is a major transit. You will feel it in some way. The best you can do is to value it for the lessons you’re about to learn.

    Those of you who have Saturn in Scorpio will be going through your Saturn return sometime between now and the end of 2014/2015. If it’s a one-hit touch, consider yourself lucky and blessed. Some people will go through it 3 or even 5 times, and they have stories that will send chills down your spine. Consider this: Jim Morrison (28) of The Doors:

    Jimi Hendrix (28):

    (Sep 1, 2015 – Original video was removed. I’ve replaced it with 12 String Blues)

    Janis Joplin (27):

    Kurt Cobain (27):

    and Amy Winehouse (28):

    all died during their Saturn returns at the age of 27 or 28. Make sure you’re here, still very much in our midst, when you’re past this return.

    Please don’t take that as melodramatic. It’s not. It’s absolutely serious, and when the times get rough, promise someone you’ll still be here when you’re on the other side of it. If you don’t have a rough time of this return, thank your “lucky stars.” You did it right–even if you’re not sure how that happened.

    For now, buckle down, brace yourself for whatever storms are coming your way, and determine to get through those rough spots so you can see where you’re going in a positive way. There will be bright spots. I promise. But yes, I know when it hurts, when it’s that negative, it seems as if there are none. I remember a saying, “When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.” Don’t stop hanging on, okay? It’s hard work, yes, but it’s soooo worth it!

    #1517

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Expecto Patronum ! Expecto Patronum !Oct 2, 2012

    Michelle, is it any different for someone who is in their 50’s? My mum is a Scorpio too (Nov 2), and she is 52.

    err…I don’t know if it’s a SaR for her, though.

    Irene - Orkut shot Irene D’SilvaOct 2, 2012

    Expecto
    Saturn Return happens every 29-30 years. So I believe your Mom’s second Saturn Return should be somewhere close to her 59th birthday (Michelle, please correct me if I am wrong)

    Michelle, how is this Saturn in Scorpio going to affect the Scorpios who does not have Saturn in Scorpio? I am sure even if it has some effect it won’t be as intense as Saturn in Scorpio. Am I right?

    #1518

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    Expecto Patronum !:
    Michelle, is it any different for someone who is in their 50’s? My mum is a Scorpio too (Nov 2), and she is 52.

    Expecto, have a look at Irene’s answer. She’s right by average. The second return can take place any time between around age 54 and 64. It just depends on how long before Saturn’s travels bring the ringed fellow back again. We tend to think of Saturn as a 29-year transit, but it’s not. That depends on all of the retrogrades between.

    The second transit also depends: It depends on how one has lived so far and how the individual’s health is. If the person has lived okay without many problems, it’s possible s/he could slide through or run into major health issues. Let me show you something that happened this week. It’s a conversation between a client and me about her husband:

    I’ve just received permission from a client of mine to share an example through the emails I’ve been receiving from her this morning:

    [Client]
    “My husband came down with a head cold, but when I got home from work today, his breathing was labored terribly. As the day progressed it got worse. I told him he had to go to the hospital to get oxygen or something or he was going to strain his heart. (Remember you told me about his heart). I got him in the car and we got only one block from the house and he became panicky, so instead of driving to the hospital, I called am ambulance. His oxygen was down to 80. They immediately put him on oxygen and gave him a one hour breathing treatment. They kept him overnight to monitor his oxygen. It won’t go up on it’s own; he’s on oxygen to be at a normal level. We don’t know outcome yet. I’m not knowing what to think at this point. Remember you told me the heart. That sticks with me. I’m wondering if it’s congestive heart failure because the lungs although congested didn’t show pneumonia or any signs of infection. He does have COPD and emphysema, so ?????

    “Just thought I’d let you know you predicted this about exactly to the date.”

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    [Client]
    “Michelle, Read your gmails… It’s about the reading you gave me. Tx. xo”

    Michelle Young
    “I know. I wish I wasn’t quite so right, but I won’t lie either, as you know. Thank you so much!

    How is he doing today?

    And how are YOU?”

    [Client]
    “i’m tired, stayed at hospital until after 1:00 am. I’m not sure yet, have to go there and see what doctors say after they see him. A lung specialist is coming in but like you said you think it’s heart. His lung rather chest xray didn’t show anything but i don’t know what next…….if he’ll get worse, get better, then get worse, or what, if you know what I’m saying. on steroids and oxygen therapy…….”

    Michelle Young

    “Did you get any sleep?”

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    [Client]
    “yes i couldn’t fall asleep right away, but when I did, I slept hard and all night

    Michelle,
    he was resistant and I kept telling him he could have heart failure if he continued breathing like that, then I had to tell him about our conversation………..that’s what made him go
    or he could have been dead on the floor last night and today is the 8 year anniversary of my mother’s death and yesterday would have been his father’s birthday”

    Michelle Young

    “Thank heaven for that! That T-square last night was a doozy, I know…you came to mind at once as I remembered your note this morning… And as we think it’s quiet here in America on the bigger national scene, maybe not: Europe has chaos in the streets. Protests about the economy which I saw coming 5 years ago.
    Omg,
    xxxxx (I’ve removed the client’s name although she said she plans to give testimony later…it’s a respect to her. I’m honored if she chooses to, but I cannot reveal the name on my own, a matter of client
    confidentiality beyond sharing these messages) …thank heaven you remembered, and he went!”

    [Client]
    “yes It was on my mind, i take that seriously and i know his poor health so THANK YOU FOR SAVING [husband]’S LIFE at least for today, right?
    I read some of the news Michelle, things are upsdie down”

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    Michelle Young
    “please tell him I wanted you to thank him for me for taking the warning seriously. I only could do what I saw. Your words started me crying. Thank you for honoring me, but the doctors did that.”

    [Client]
    “i think Dallas had an earthquake and tokyo is getting some massive storm You were right on the money. This pluto Uranus square is tough what i’m seeing in my immediate environment is people losing jobs, the economy hitting hard those close to me”

    Michelle Young
    “My cousin wanted to know what was supposed to happen last night. May I, without mentioning the name, give her an idea of what your husband went through by sharing the first note?”

    [Client]

    “you can, and I will give you a testimony for sure. you can use my emails as well, no problem”

    [Client]

    “I’m going to shower and get to the hospital. Thanks so much for helping me last night, you were with me all the way. YOU are the one who prompted him to go to the hospital or he would not have gone. I wish you could have seen his face when I told him about our conversation.

    I was trying to use any tactic to get him there, but in my mind, that was sincere and honest and he knew I wasn’t kidding, I’ve also made him (to some degree) an astrology believer so THANK YOU

    HAVE A GOOD DAY AND I’LL KEEP YOU POSTED”

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    [Client]
    To further validate your prediction Michelle, the doctor came in to see my husband this morning and truly was more concerned about his heart than the lungs. First words, ‘WHAT ABOUT YOUR HEART”?. More tests in the offing, overnight again to get him more stable. Amazing, the dates, the diagnosis, and the dates that stuck in my head. When all this came down, the words “HEART PROBLEM, HUSBAND’ was all I could think about. An amazing accurate prediction that should make anyone a believer.

    My reply: Michelle Young

    If you would rather I post it and continue to keep your identity private, that’s fine too. smile It’s such a nice series of comments…validating what I had done. I’m blown away now. lol

    Client:
    Yes post it, but keep my identity private if you don’t mind. You deserve it Michelle. You were very sure about that health issue. I saved the conversation i asked if it was my son, you said Husband you were sure

    To my client, thank you so much for letting me know. We astrologers don’t always receive priceless information as you’ve shared here. Thank you thank you thank you!

    #1519

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012

    Irene - Orkut shot Irene D’Silva
    Saturn Return happens every 29-30 years. So I believe your Mom’s second Saturn Return should be somewhere close to her 59th birthday (Michelle, please correct me if I am wrong)

    You were pretty close, by average, Irene. The Saturn return technically can take place between 29 and 30 years, but it can also take place between ages 27 and 32.

    Michelle, how is this Saturn in Scorpio going to affect the Scorpios who does not have Saturn in Scorpio? I am sure even if it has some effect it won’t be as intense as Saturn in Scorpio. Am I right?

    Now I can go back to normal text. I wanted to be sure my reply to you showed clearly in the . The first frame of this thread shows what I was saying about Saturn in Scorpio for Scorpios who do not have Saturn here. However, some people in the community will have experienced their Saturn return so close to Scorpio, they will need to be aware that they aren’t quiteout of the woods just yet. So it doesn’t hurt them to read the Saturn return in Scorpio as well although it will have a slightly different feel to it because we’re now talking about Scorpio intensity–feelings, rage, jealousy, emotion, passion, gut response (depends on what else is being hit)–instead of how to treat the relationship like one does a business interaction (Libra response). I think frustration is more noticeable when Saturn is around, and that will be the case regardless of in which sign Saturn is actually appearing. But the ways in which one handles the frustration will vary. One person will have intense rage, another will cry copious amounts of tears as if they have merged with a river…

    This is the moment of maturation. When it conjuncts the Sun, we’re looking at the cold hard facts of paying the piper, so to speak. With the Moon, the feeling of gut wrenching, abject loneliness even if someone is in one’s life. It can be total depression, and that becomes a serious problem if it’s during the first Saturn return as well. Mercury, that could also be depression, but it’s also possible one will see the loss of one or more loved ones. Venus…how strong is your love? Is this it? Mars. Now there is frustration at its best and worst! Jupiter, look for conservative rather than dramatic action. Saturn, you already know. Uranus, hopefully you won’t have some family problems cropping up. Neptune, this is the peeling of life’s onion. Pluto, I tend to see this as a stronger component rather than one that would make someone handle the transit poorly.

    As for the houses, that can be tentative, depending on houses, and it can be a lot more complex also depending on where it hits and what else is going on. Does that help?

    Irene - Orkut shot Irene D’SilvaOct 2, 2012

    It did help. Thank you, Michelle!

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungOct 2, 2012
    Remember the part where I said I lost the original post I was writing? Guess what I forgot!

    If you are in North America, on the East Coast, Saturn will move into Scorpio on Friday the 5th of October at 3:48:02 PM EDT.

    If you are in India, Saturn will move into Scorpio on Saturday the 6th of October at 1:18:02 AM IST.

    I’ll be happy to answer those of you elsewhere who may want to follow when it will hit where they live although I don’t expect the actual time to be relevant, just more as a point of clear knowledge.

    #1520

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Expecto Patronum ! Expecto Patronum !Oct 3, 2012
    Michelle Young:

    This is the moment of maturation. When it conjuncts the Sun, we’re looking at the cold hard facts of paying the piper, so to speak. With the Moon, the feeling of gut wrenching, abject loneliness even if someone is in one’s life. It can be total depression, and that becomes a serious problem if it’s during the first Saturn return as well. Mercury, that could also be depression, but it’s also possible one will see the loss of one or more loved ones. Venus…how strong is your love? Is this it? Mars. Now there is frustration at its best and worst! Jupiter, look for conservative rather than dramatic action. Saturn, you already know. Uranus, hopefully you won’t have some family problems cropping up. Neptune, this is the peeling of life’s onion. Pluto, I tend to see this as a stronger component rather than one that would make someone handle the transit poorly.

    As for the houses, that can be tentative, depending on houses, and it can be a lot more complex also depending on where it hits and what else is going on. Does that help?
    What does Saturn conjunct in my chart, Michelle?

    Michelle - Orkut shotMichelle YoungOct 3, 2012
    Expecto Patronum !:

    What does Saturn conjunct in my chart, Michelle?

    Expecto, how blessed are you? lol You have a natal stellium of 3 or more planets conjunct in the 4th house. Pluto (in Libra), Mercury, Sun and Saturn, all within 8°. Transiting Saturn conjuncts your Pluto tomorrow. You tend to set your mind to things and just do them. Your sense of responsibility and focus are impressive.

    #1521

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungNov 21, 2012

    Well, somehow I inadvertently missed seeing this thread as I went through the first couple of runs through the archives yesterday, but I spotted this a few minutes ago and couldn’t quite figure out how I could have missed it. That said, I’m reposting something I posted in the wee hours this morning in the other Saturn thread, “Saturn and You.” Either way, you’ll see it. (Now just to decide whether I should put my thoughts on Saturn in Scorpio here or in the other thread. This one feels more appropriate…)

    A little segue into tomorrow’s (actually today now!) postings with a little help from dear old Saturn. Take it away, Saturn!

    (Sorry, yes, you need to click the link. Google won’t make it easy for us if you’re looking for them to be thoughtful. Still, a great piece of work.)

    #1522

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungNov 22, 2012

    One of my favorite astrological writers is Bil Tierney. No, his name is not misspelled. Only one “L” in his first name. I’ve been thinking about the way he writes and how he can put forth some amazing energy and understandings in his books. With that in mind, I wanted to share with you what he says about Saturn in Scorpio. Those of you who have Saturn in Scorpio natally will be going through your Saturn return at some point before Saturn leaves Scorpio and move on to Sagittarius. Those of you who don’t have Saturn in Scorpio natally will still benefit from Tierney’s words because you’ll find it useful by transit also. It’s not
    easy to read from the emotional perspective, but don’t blame poor Saturn. He’s got help from Scorpio’s primary ruler, Pluto, and the secondary ruler, Mars. These are the heavy hitters. You know that already.

    Tierney points to Scorpio’s control factor which he says is accentuated through Saturn at the same time “self-discipline [can] be taken to the extreme” and what may have started out as a firmly principled ideal can become compulsive and rigid. When you combine these two kinds of energies, you can discover that your negative feelings like fear end up blocking you from the the revelation of “inner mysteries” you may have hoped to find. We all need to remember when Saturn is in Scorpio that “we can be hard on ourselves psychologically.”
    Tierney says, “We don’t seem to process our life experiences the easy way, which we’d have a better chance of doing if we took them at face value. Instead, we probe below life’s surface, where things can get darker and more complex.” I like Tierney’s description of Scorpio as an emotional cooker that often “processes too many conflicting energies at once.”

    The 8th house is Scorpio’s natural home, and it brings to mind more than simple transformation. There’s a deep darkness here in the 8th, and that transformation tends to represent a series of life and death experiences, not from the physical sense as much as the transformative sense. I thought about Heath Ledger when I considered the 8th house, but he was born in April, and his time of birth is still unknown. By the Solar chart, he has Uranus placed in the 8th house, and his overdose probably could be considered appropriately there in a Grand Water Trine with Jupiter in the 4th and Mars and retrograde Mercury tightly conjunct in the 12th. According to AstroDataBank, his death was an accidental suicide by overdose. I look at Mars in the 12th, and it just doesn’t fit as “accidental” especially when the Solar chart would place his natal Chiron in the 1st house.

    Anyway, Tierney points out that we all go through these transformations in our lives, although we are far more aware of our life clock when we’re more conscious of Scorpio. It’s not just the Sun. I feel it too. It’s not just the Moon or any other planet. It’s the presence of the Scorpio activation in the chart that often triggers such reactions. In terms of our negative responses to life, “toxic hostility resulting from long-term, seething resentments,” says Tierney, these things need to die just as the urge to destroy others who have wounded Scorpio in some way needs to die. These, Tierney says, are psychological complexes, and he urges Scorpio to recognize that such darkness needs to be “redeemed,” eradicated, or the native will “suffer in isolation.” He suggests that the best way to combat such self-destructive tendencies is to become empowered and to “psychologically survive its trials in life.”

    Tierney does point out to the reader that Scorpio resists external pressure for change and won’t be likely to move at all without being spurred from the inside.

    It’s a lot to think about, but I hope that will give you some food for thought as Saturn transits your chart, wherever Scorpio might be.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungNov 22, 2012

    If you’re interested in reading more of Tierney’s work, you might check out All Around the Zodiac: Exploring Astrology’s Twelve Signs or one of his other books related to the outer planets, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. The work he’s done on the outer planets is incredible.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungNov 22, 2012
    My apologies for the lack of editing this post tonight. I really wanted to get it out tonight, and never spotted those places to edit because I was rushing. It’s a reminder, especially with

    Mercury retrograde. Mea culpa!

    #1523

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungJan 12, 2013

    I need to bring up this thread for a unique reason. Saturn is in Scorpio. As I write this, CSI New York is on television, and they’ve just arrested a guy for murder (8th house is criminal and Pluto’s natural home…just a reminder: Pluto rules Scorpio.). And what do I see as he turns his head? He’s got a large tattoo on his neck. It’s a Scorpion! lol

    I don’t know about you, but I appreciated that humor.

    #1524

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Irene - Orkut shot Irene D’SilvaJan 14, 2013

    The Scorpion tattoo. That’s pretty darn funny

    #1525

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 3, 2013

    I think all of us with something in Scorpio feel the impact the impact of Saturn pretty hard at times. It sweeps over us like a black cloud if we want to party, even when we’ve worked hard, it brings tears to the eyes as if we’ve spent the whole day peeling and chopping onions, it can turn us in to work demons with no reprieve till we’re on the other side of it. I know. I’m stuck with Scorpio rising, which I really love because there are some great things about Scorpio rising–for me. One person I know has put her nose to the grindstone and rarely comes up for air except to say a quick hi before vanishing again. Another has found love and is now doing the testing thing. Even in love we have tests. 🙂

    Saturn, even in Scorpio, has its perks: It can help to make us more focused, It’s demanding. It demands that we challenge ourselves with determination, endurance, courage, fearlessness, and stamina. But rest assured that this isn’t an easy achievement. Depending on where Saturn is in your natal chart, it can be quite challenge to say the least! Those of you who have been here for years are aware of my personal achievements over the last year. Each of us, while Saturn is in Scorpio will experience achievements even if we’re not really that aware because of other things going on. That doesn’t mean it’s a bed of roses, as you’ve probably all figured out by now. It is about hard work and persistence.

    Why am I talking about it now? Easy. Saturn is about to go retrograde in about 2 weeks, on the 18th in the Western hemisphere, on the 19th in the Eastern hemisphere. Be ready. Here come the tests! In love, in work, even in the area where I’ve achieved since March 2012…the proving ground awaits! (For me, Saturn’s position warns that I may go further with my achievement than I intended. I’m watching that carefully.) As for love, work and where I achieved…isn’t it all love–or love and for love? Why else would we be dedicated? 🙂

    Sireesha - Orkut Sireesha InturiFeb 3, 2013
    nothing more for me to add i guess…you nailed it as usual

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 3, 2013

    Here are the lyrics, for those of you who would like them:

    Hey, Jude, don’t make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Then you can start to make it better

    Hey, Jude, don’t be afraid
    You were made to go out and get her
    The minute you let her under your skin
    Then you begin to make it better.

    And any time you feel the pain, hey, Jude, refrain
    Don’t carry the world upon your shoulders
    Well don’t you know that its a fool who plays it cool
    By making his world a little colder

    Hey, Jude! Don’t let her down
    You have found her, now go and get her
    Remember, to let her into your heart
    Then you can start to make it better.

    So let it out and let it in, hey, Jude, begin
    You’re waiting for someone to perform with
    And don’t you know that it’s just you, hey, Jude,
    You’ll do, the movement you need is on your shoulder

    Hey, Jude, don’t make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Then you can start to make it better

    #1526

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Irene - Orkut shot Irene D’SilvaFeb 6, 2013

    Getting ready for this “test” … or am I going through this test already?

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 6, 2013

    The current Rx will be done July 8, and this point will be complete on October 15. Take note of what happens on the 18th of this month, February, and see how it goes. It may not have anything to do with what you’re thinking it will. I’m considering your chart as I’m saying that, Irene. On the other hand, it could have to do with the next house since it’s within orb already of your next house. Yes, it will still focus a bit on the house in which it’s currently placed, but I don’t believe it will be all there is. Consider the next house too. 🙂

    Does that help?

    M LFeb 6, 2013

    “In terms of our negative responses to life, “toxic hostility resulting from long-term, seething resentments,” says Tierney, these things need to die just as the urge to destroy others who have wounded Scorpio in some way needs to die. ”

    Am I really not the only crazy one who suffers this way from negativity after all ? Is it my sun-sign after all that is to blame (and not me ? :=D )

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 6, 2013

    You know I always love to see you here, Maha! 🙂

    Scorpio is, after all, the sign primarily ruled by Pluto. I’ll also bring up that Mars is the secondary ruler since this comes into play here as well. Pluto is about transformation though, and even destruction and the urge to destroy others who have wounded Scorpio is still a transformative act in some way for the Scorpio, I suppose. Look carefully at the words Bil Tierney uses in that : “toxic hostility,” “long term,” “die,” “urge to destroy others who have wounded Scorpio in some way needs to die.” That’s pretty much it in a nutshell, wouldn’t you say? And that’s all 8th house stuff, related to the natural zodiacal chart.

    I’ve seen it in people with Scorpio Moon and Scorpio rising as well, and yes, that means that I’ve experienced it too. cringe! I don’t know how any of us get through such things without some kind of transformation. This may be where we need to deal with our Chiron since our own actions play a role in the self-wounding too, don’t they? Chiron is the place where we look to find the wounded healer. So the challenge is not to wound others, rather to heal the wounds we ourselves have created or played a role in our being who we became before the transformation. Am I making sense?

    That, of course, may also depend on where Chiron sits in your chart–and in what sign.
    The negativity? That’s another issue. Regardless of Sun sign, I think it’s likely that each and every one of us will periodically–or, heaven forbid, but I’m afraid it’s true, constantly –beat ourselves up. We’re great at that. So why take it out on others? Easy. Isn’t it easier to blame others for the wounds we have inside, the ones we caused ourselves to allow the breakdown of our self-perception? Is it really the wound itself, or the effect it had on our self-awareness?

    “The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.” Kahlil Gibran, from The Prophet, chapter on Joy and Sorrow

    Chapter on Pain, from The Prophet, Kahlil Gibran

    And a woman spoke, saying, “Tell us of Pain.”

    And he said:

    Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.

    Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.

    And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy;

    And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields.

    And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief.

    Much of your pain is self-chosen.

    It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self.

    Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity:

    For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen,

    And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 6, 2013

    I guess I haven’t been clear on the time that Saturn will go retrograde on the 18th: In India, it will make the “turn” at 11:24:29 pm according to my program. Now some programs may vary by a few minutes, but not by hours especially with Saturn. In the United States, that depends on your time zone. EST time zone puts it at 12:54:29 pm. By UT time, it will be 5:54:59 pm.

    Hope that helps any of you who were curious. 😉

    #1527

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 17, 2013

    Well, Saturn begins the retrograde tomorrow. Are you ready?

    Sireesha - Orkut Sireesha InturiFeb 18, 2013

    hmm….really today?? … not exciting news for me…

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 20, 2013

    Doing okay, Sireesha? 🙂

    Sireesha - Orkut Sireesha InturiFeb 21, 2013

    A little ok

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 21, 2013

    One step at a time, Sireesha. 🙂

    Sireesha - Orkut Sireesha InturiFeb 22, 2013

    That “step” is what i dont understand actually…am trying to…..let’s see how this turns out..

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungFeb 22, 2013

    Be patient. It will come.

    I’m going to start working on the Hyderabad blasts analysis in the morning after I’m up. Back in a few hours. ‘Night.

    #1528

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Expecto Patronum ! Expecto Patronum !May 20, 2013

    Just brushing up the thread – how’s Saturn doing in Scorpio, Michelle? I read “Be patient” – is that still the mantra?

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungMay 20, 2013

    I’m afraid so, Expecto. Not the kindest words any of us might want to hear, but they’re apparently important ones. We “only” have less than two months now till Saturn resumes its direct motion, and that relieves even me. 🙂

    Now that’s not to say that this round of Saturn has been particularly “bad” per sé. “Bad’ depends on perspectives and whether we’ve actually learned anything from the first round. We may not like what the experiences or emotions have been taking over us as Saturn has plodded through our brains/hearts/feelings, and so on, but that’s part of the process, regardless of whether we’re 2, 20, 200 or any numbers between those.

    Ultimately, of course, it’s a matter of how we’ve learned, how we’ve processed, and where we are now. If we’ve learned well, processed well, then we should be going through this second–and the third rounds, come July–with relative ease. Discomfort? Sure. But not out and out excruciating pain. Twinges? Pain? To be sure, that’s possible, but killer stuff? Well, we might shed a tear here and there. It’s possible. But it’s a matter of our understanding that we may be having the problem, not from anyone else, but rather because we’re having a problem in understanding in some way that even if we’re involved with others at those close levels, we’re still individuals as well–and if we’re not involved with others, we still are because we’re part of a body of people that may be working together on a project, for instance, or we have responsibilities to whatever group values and plans have been made as a commitment to a group. (I hope you see what I mean here. As I wrote that, it seemed a bit convoluted, but I don’t mean to imply that this is only about intimate relationships. That depends on the individual chart any one of us have.)

    As the third eclipse moves in too, this will also play a role on what comes next. No surprise, all of these energies work together, like waves we see in the ocean, the tides rising and falling, the waves rushing in to kiss the shore before pulling back for more time only to return again. There is reason to this even when we don’t understand, so yes, we need patience. But to the universe, of course, we remain as children, so we keep asking, “Are we there yet???”

    I know I do. 🙂 And I so long to be!

    How about you?

    #1529

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013

    Those of you who have been going through your Saturn returns, how are you doing? (More coming after this, but if any of you having this transit right now are online and are seeing this, I’d love to hear.)

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013

    Demos, I didn’t forget. You haven’t been responding in the community, and I had no way of knowing whether or not you were here.but this is not where you want to put this request. Do me a favor. Find the “Got Questions” thread. I will answer you there hopefully this weekend unless the pace suddenly picks up quickly. I’m just one person and I do not analyze by computer. What I do is one on one, me with the chart.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013

    I have moved your thread, Demos, to the correct thread–“Got Questions.”

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013

    From my poster who prefers to remain anonymous:

    Just read your post.

    I’ve been on a see-saw of energy. For a few weeks/months, I set up goals and feel good about them, but at other times, and that’s mostly it, I feel I’m not doing enough, and not going anywhere. It’s saddening.

    I definitely feel and have been isolated. People around me are having hard time not knowing what I will be like on that day. I mull over things A LOT! That’s probably not just Saturn and my inherent nature, but I get depressed realizing I didn’t DO anything about what I was thinking.

    What do you got for me, Michelle? I want to make use of Saturn the best way.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013
    Unto Ashes Morte O Merce Saturn Return

    Ite, caldi sospiri, al freddo core;
    Rompete il ghiaccio che pietá contende,
    E se prego mortale al ciel s’intende,
    Morte, o merce sia fine al mio dolore

    Go, burning sighs, into that frozen heart;
    Shatter the ice that now with pity vies,
    And if a mortal prayer can reach the skies,
    Let death or mercy end at last this smart.

    Saturn has been conjunct your Scorpio 4th house stellium for months now. During the retrograde, I’m sure you were feeling quite comfortable since it was a process perhaps of revamping your thoughts and ideas to get you to a better mindset so you were pleased with the amounts of work you could do. Although it didn’t go fully through the stellium, it went enough through to allow you to feel the entire stellium activated, and with that kind of drive of yours, I am really not surprised you feel like this.

    As the ringed planet now moves forward again, I think you’ll begin to feel much more in control of where you’re going. By the end of September, Saturn will leave your 4th and move fully into your 5th, and you’ll feel it’s time to move forward in your life to allow more of life itself to reenter your scope of reality. Not that everything will be a bed of roses for you, but you know that. But it will be a weight off your shoulders so you can breathe a bit more easily.

    As for the depression and isolation, that most definitely is Saturn as it approached your other two planets that we’re conjuncted again by “the ringed one.” Saturn conjunct Mercury, in particular, can make one extremely depressed and, in your case, there was a definite conjunction although Saturn didn’t retrograde back all the way. The same holds true for your Pluto which, conjunct Mercury, would have added that deeper, slower mulling over almost to the point of obsession process. Don’t underestimate Saturn. We have to pay our dues, and we’re not going to feel like dancing,but there is–as you see–a means to an end. You’re almost there to start life again. 🙂

    Does that help?

    Here’s another for you, and stay tuned, there are still more after this:

    R.E.M. Saturn Return

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 2, 2013

    “Saturn Return”

    Easy to poke yourself square in the eye
    Harder to like yourself, harder to try
    These are espouses
    Postcards and neoprene
    Roses a dollar a stem
    Everyone sleeping or pulling the long haul and
    Keys/caves(?) in the cooler it’s three A.M.
    And Saturn is beckoning no-one
    It’s offering up.

    Late shift convenience store, burn out the lights
    Telescope roof towards the north-western sky
    You pulled the ladder and no-ones the wiser
    You find your sights and discover

    Saturn is orbiting nothing
    He’s off on its own,
    He’s breaking from home.

    Harder to look yourself square in the eye
    Easy to take off…

    You found the ladder in the pattern of your wrist
    You’ve seen and you’ve marked horizons
    Mother was difficult, she made you cry
    Cover the mirror, look to the sky

    You climb into your rocket ship trying
    Lift up and hold out your hands.

    Saturn is orbiting nothing
    He’s off on its own
    He’s breaking from home

    Saturn is orbiting nothing
    He’s off on its own
    He’s breaking from home

    Saturn returns when you chased down, it slows
    Throw them into a new gravity

    Harder to look yourself square in the eye
    Easy to poke yourself, easy as pie
    Easy to take off, harder to fly
    Harder to wake Galileo.

    #1530

    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 5, 2013

    I haven’t forgotten this thread. I’ll be back to it. More delays as you’ll see in additional posts tonight.

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 12, 2013

    Speaking of Saturn, here’s a good example of Saturn and rewards in unexpected places… Hmm…that sounds like Uranus is here too. Could be. But it still belongs in this thread too. At the least, see if you agree with me. 🙂

    Sometimes, I’m really not sure to put some things that I really really want to share here. This story is one of those times. Take 12 minutes (okay, 2 seconds shy of 12 minutes) out of your life and watch the video on this New York Times link. This man is a physics teacher in Louisville, Kentucky. I swear he could teach anyone anything. He also teaches calculus.
    But some teachers are so special because there’s more to them than just their subjects. This one falls into that category. In fact, he’s so special, I’m also posting this in Incoming: Astrology Domine! because I’m afraid all of you who would want to see this might not realize it if I didn’t post it there. Please take time to see it. It says he’s a remarkable man with an awesome attitude and the ability to see life as we all should see: that there’s a reason why we struggle at times. Hmmm…come to think of it…I’ve posted this in the Science & Technology thread too. See how much I’m pleading with you to watch this? I hope you will. You won’t regret it. It will touch your heart at the core.

    http://www.nytimes.com/video/2012/12/24/science/100000001947354/wrights-law.html

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungAug 14, 2013

    A great commentary by Late Night talk show host Craig Ferguson… Now he probably didn’t realize he was talking about Saturn returns, but it really was so unmistakable to me. Enjoy it!

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