On women in the news… (Just women? :o ) (Mar 7, 2013)

About Me Forums Scorpio! On women in the news… (Just women? :o ) (Mar 7, 2013)

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  • #1411
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungMar 7, 2013
    On women in the news… (Just women? 😮 )
    Not to steal the spotlight from men who also deserve notice here and there, but that “Oooohhhh yessss!” moment hasn’t arrived from what I’ve seen. Not that they aren’t there. They are. It’s just that I haven’t seen anything and the timing may not have been right yet.  We’ll see when it happens. But for now, here’s an example of greatness…

    Today is International Women’s Day 2013. Take a moment to celebrate the achievements of these inspiring women who have made a difference.

    http://www.redrickshaw.in/the-women/

    See you in a few hours. I’m not sticking around.  It’s already way too late, but I’ll be back and will post more today. 

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungMar 8, 2013
    Sheepish grin: Guess I posted one day too early. 

    So good. We celebrate two days then. 

    Michelle - Orkut shot Michelle YoungMar 8, 2013
    lol It posted twice?? Oops! 😀

    #1413
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 9, 2013
    I’ve been playing around with something today since it’s International Women’s Day, and while I’m just getting started with it, I wanted to share this on Women’s Suffrage in America. Maybe this thread is also good for following women’s suffrage throughout the world, if that’s possible, and perhaps other things too. Maybe that’s why I put the title here as I did “on women in the news” instead of referring to suffrage. 🙂 Anyway…

    The following has only years mentioned, no actual dates. So I took a stab at one notation I saw and cast a chart for March 8, 1850, at 2:34:49 PM, Binghamton, New York, just a quick look. I’m not all that sure I need to post the chart itself since it’s a hypothetical date, time and place although it happened back then that there was a date and time as I just mentioned in Binghamton, New York, a then-thriving city not terribly far from Seneca Falls, New York, where much of the suffrage movement gained its energy and popularity.

    So why March 8, 1850? This is why:

    One Hundred Years toward Suffrage: An Overview
    Compiled by E. Susan Barber
    http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/naw/nawstime.html

    1820 to 1880
        Evidence from a variety of printed sources published during this period–advice manuals, poetry and literature, sermons, medical texts–reveals that Americans, in general, held highly stereotypical notions about women’s and men’s roles in society. Historians would later term this phenomenon “The Cult of Domesticity.” 

    1850 is the midpoint year, so it can give an idea of that period of time, and I found it pretty amazing.

    Hmmm…come to think of it, yes, I will post the chart. Give me a minute. I’ll be right back with it and go on from here.

    Michelle Young – Mar 9, 2013
    Cult of Domesticity – US Women’s Suffrage Movement from period 1820-1880
    US Women's Suffrage - Cult of Domesticity

    #1414
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 9, 2013
    The very first thing that struck me was that combust Venus in Pisces in the 8th house. Venus in this position becomes debilitated since the rays of the Sun are blocking Venus from “shining.” It makes sense. During this time period, women really had no rights. They were taught to focus on peace, balance, harmony, and making things right, like diplomats are often considered trying to do in war zones. Women from this period might have been known for their inordinate femininity, although I’m not sure I’d really want to go that far. The period I’m talking about would be inclusive of the US Civil War when women not only were nurses to the soldiers but were known to transform their bodies to look like young boys and fight alongside the soldiers. Apparently not too many were caught since they maintained their discretion at all times. This seems to be reminiscent of what I remember of the Barbra Streisand movie, Yentl, in which she transformed herself into a young man in order to attend Jewish studies and to learn from the Talmud.

    Moving on, take note of the Uranus-MC-Pluto conjunction in Aries. Talk about the heavy hand of the male dominance at that time, or so it seems. I suppose this chart could be something like a horary chart but I’m not at all knowledgeable about horary, so that’s just a guess. But from that Uranus-Pluto conjunct to the MC and the Sun ruling the chart from the 8th house, for me, this represents a time period when there was a lot of subservience going on, and the male was the dominant force. It’s no wonder why it took women so long to have the right to own property and to be able to vote! By the time the chart would have been in daily life, women would have had the right to own property, but it was a newly acquired right. The right to own property was granted in New York State in 1848.

    The need for this kind of subservience was further revealed in this chart with Jupiter opposition to both the Sun and Venus. For a woman, if she loved her man, this was how she was trained to behave. And her man expected it. Even the Moon in this chart, placed in Saturn-ruled Capricorn, gives me that impression in this case. Note where Saturn is placed for that matter. The 9th house, where the courts make decisions and rules, and laws are created.

    From my book, Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow: Meeting the Challenge of Our Multicultural America & Beyond (©1996 Caddo Gap Press), take note of what I wrote as follows on pages 145-146:

    “…Perhaps some slaveowners saw what women had begun to achieve as a threat to the very fiber of the nation, although the national fight for suffrage would take another seventy-two years. 

    “Imagine the thoughts of a slaveowner who, until now, retained absolutely total control of his life and his possessions–from his wife and female children to his slaves! For years, he had been a godhead on his plantation. He may have seen himself as a generous and loving husband and father to his adoring family. To his slaves, he was lord and master who would meagerly dole out some minute favor–or lessened abuse–for work well done, often punishing with abandon for the most obscure slights. Perhaps he had encouraged the creation of public schools for poor families and had even been able to tolerate what some men called progress–more humane treatment of jail prisoners and patients in insane asylums and the admission of women to some universities. The abolitionist movement may simply have been more than he could bear. Even in his own family, he no longer knew whom he could trust.” 

    This wasn’t the time for war, and that’s pretty well noted in the lack of hard aspects either from Mars, Saturn, Uranus or Pluto. Normally, there’s a hard aspect among at least 2 or 3 of those. In fact, Pluto is sextiling Mars and Uranus is sextiling both Mars and Mercury, not to mention that Uranus is also ruling the sign in which Mercury is placed in this chart.

    Okay, there’s the fodder for at least some of this thread… Over the next several days, I’ll return to this as I can. But please, if you have thoughts to add, something you think I might have missed from the period, let me know. 

    #1415
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 9, 2013
    well my thoughts, arent related to that period, but this is what i feel. Rights are not something that anybody can give us. If we are asking someone to give them to us, it inherently means we dont have any.You dont have to live through out your life, waiting for someone else to give you your rights, they are your’s. Start using them. Women have to stop training themselves according to the boundaries set by the society. You are who you are. As a woman, this is your life, not someone else’s. Find yourself, and live it according to your wish, the way you want it to be. I know it’s never easy to do that. But as time progresses, it will be worth it, because, you might be alone in the world, but you will not be alone with yourself.  

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 9, 2013
    I might have gone away from the topic, but at the end, it’s all about living the life, isnt it?

    #1416
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 10, 2013
    Beautifully said, Sireesha. You know, after I received the awards for the book I mentioned above, the words “s/he talks the talk, but does s/he walk the walk?” were frequently sprinkled into conversations. Especially when someone with my fair skin showed up, that was likely to be the case that the question would be asked–as if there were dividing lines between people of color talking and walking the talk and walk and people who supposedly had no color and therefore, in their minds, couldn’t possibly talk or walk the walk and talk. Bias and prejudice comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors, etc.

    I can remember being accused of not being any one of my multiple of heritages/cultures/ethnicities in my childhood and teens because I was too different. This seems almost inappropriate in the thread, and yet it’s not. This community has seen countless barbs directed against one culture, race, religion, nationality, etc, so we’ve gone through the same thing even here. Haven’t we all as members of various human groups had to fight for rights at one time or another? Unfortunately, gender often ends up the final weapon, and that’s the distinction, isn’t it?

    I don’t think you went away from the topic at all, Sireesha, especially now. I just noticed something that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar had stated in a post he made, about unity in diversity, the very theme my first book was about, the same theme we consider with a few religions, but only one that I know of talks about the whole world being a family. We cannot be a family if we don’t have basic human rights respected. 

    #1417
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 10, 2013
    you are right michelle. You know the problem is, we often divide ourselves into several categories, women, men, children, and according to the place we live in. And then, in each, the culture, religion dictate the rights a person posses. At the end, it’s a simple matter. You are a living being, a human…you have the same rights as anyone else in the world(anyone else – including every living form on this planet). But then why do we categorize rights too?? and let those rights, be structured by the restrictions set by the society? By doing that, arent we basically nullifying the meaning the word “rights”?? It worries me, because most of us do it all time..we view, the rights that a person has, from the restrictions set by the soceity… which means, we dont understand what the real meaning of the word is.

    #1418
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 10, 2013
    Keep going, Sireesha. It’s good to see you on a roll. 🙂 You’re right. Absolutely. How do we change that process? Not trying to put you in a corner, just trying to help you to see around the next bend, to sense the process of thinking outside the box. What next?

    #1419
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 10, 2013
    It’s a simple but yet very difficult thing to do. Just view each one as a living being.. that’s it, and start valuing them as they are. As simple as it sounds, it requires one to remove all those illusions one has about society, status, race, culture, and realize that in the start, and at the end, we are all equal. Born on this planet , to live the life we are given, without taking away the right to live of others. That’s what this is all about, isnt it? being who you are…being the first rate version of yourself than being second rate version of someone else….

    #1420
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 10, 2013
    Absolutely, Sireesha! 

    Know what the hardest part of that is? Accepting oneself.  🙂

    #1421
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 10, 2013
    yes it is. that’s the hardest part. It becomes more difficult when one tries to see oneself through the expectations, and restrictions set by others. So, I think, in order to accept oneself, one should stop seeing through the expectations of others…and start seeing oneself through the values you have set up for yourself. Sounds quite simple, but it’s not quite easy to do.

    #1422
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 11, 2013
    Now if you will, allow me to play Devil’s advocate here and ask you: 

    Some would argue with you, Sireesha, that you’re saying freedom of the press then wouldn’t restrict the rights of those whose video caused so many in the Muslim world to lash back in fury at the making of that video, or wouldn’t restrict the rights of those who choose to do so, to view violence-related or X-rated material even in the presence of children.  How would you respond to that?

    #1423
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 11, 2013
    hmm…well I said earlier michelle, to live our lives, without taking others rights…Well you know, freedom has it’s own limits too, and that limit is set to the point, where our actions, dont hurt any other living being. Well if we talk only about humans, then we also have to include the existing bias, prejudice, beliefs…

    #1424
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 11, 2013
    Define rights. 🙂 What, in your opinion, defines rights, Sireesha? (And human, or otherwise?)

    #1425
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Sireesha Inturi – Mar 12, 2013
    hmm…that’s difficult michelle..i am not yet quite clear, regarding what defines rights..

    #1426
    Michelle Young
    Keymaster

    Michelle Young – Mar 12, 2013
    When you think about it and figure that out, Sireesha, I’ll be interested in hearing. Some words, IMO, seem to be intangibles. We can say what are rights we do or should have, but actually defining the word is not that easy. We know when there’s a violation of rights (slavery, for instance); but I don’t think we can define the word “rights” by what we have or don’t have. 

    Or perhaps we expect “rights” to be as simple to define as we can  the word “house” (the building where one resides) or “car” (a mode of transportation). Sadly, I don’t think the word is that simple to define. So understandably, it will challenge anyone, not just you. 🙂 I suspect it will come in time. You’re thinking. 

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